Context: I’m an Australian retired GP with over 20 years of clinical experience in both Family and Emergency Medicine. I’ve had Long Covid for 22 months, of moderate severity, mostly fatigue and PEM with some POTS. At my worst I had to spend 22 hours per day in bed. I’ve gone down many rabbit holes in my search for solutions; my search for solutions has dominated my recent life. I’ve been running a Facebook group dedicated to finding solutions to Long Covid through self experimentation and objective measurements for over a year. I follow every single research lead and am in personal contact with some of the leading doctors and scientists in the space.
Really cool approach to detecting microclots, and so glad you found a way to start feeling better. Awesome to see the biomarker both responds to treatment and correlates well with how you're feeling, too.
I'd be curious what the level of agreement is vs. pulse oxygenation. As you said it's (usually?) arterial so probably misses the downstream step of blood --> tissue perfusion.
I wonder if expired gas analysis, like they do in vo2 max tests, could be another proxy. If, at rest, your body is consuming less oxygen, maybe that indicates issues with tissue o2 uptake.
I've tried about 20 different meds and supplements over the last 6 months and the only two I can swear by is Aspirin and NK. It's nice to read, retrospectively a bit of validation from someone more educated than me on the topic.
I've recently started NAC, CBD Oil (no THC), Ubiquinol and taking Ivabradine to calm the POTS symptoms.
I'll also be starting LDN with the hope that it just eases some of the obvious inflammatory effects while we wait for more detail on how to treat the root cause.
Very well explained. You are attributing the effects of Vedicinals 9 to their antiviral effects against possibly persisting SARS-CoV-2. With regards to the literature this may or may not be the driver behind LongCovid. What I deem more plausible is that reactivation of pre-existing endogenous reservoirs (HHVs, esp. EBV) may be a driver - and indeed there is quite some evidence accumulating for this. So I would suggest that the positive effects of the Vedicinals may relate to their antiviral activity against HHVs/EBV, and indeed most of the ingredients were show to have possible anti-EBV activity.
It helps me with my chronic EDS pain. It’s potentially kept at bay the residual effects of two rounds of EBV with several years of CFS afterward. I no longer suffer from fatigue issues.
I have Factor V as well. A new Doctor thinks the LDN has protected me from severe Covid as I think I had it for two days last August. My only symptom was bizarre EBV style exhaustion for two days. Then it was gone. I’m also on prophylactic IVM and the other nutraceuticals along with it.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. One of the questions that came to my mind is what if the Vedicinals benefit isn’t coming from viral suppression, rather it is from further anti-clotting help? Specifically Rutin, Curcumin and Quercitin all aid in suppressing/resolving clots. I wonder what would happen if you replaced Vedicinals with just those 3 supplements?
I'm confused. If more oxygen is getting to tissues due to elimination of microclots, shouldn't venous O2 be *lower* in an improved state? And CO2 *higher*?
And what about an arterial blood gas test instead?
Unlike a venous blood gas test, which tests CO2-rich blood flowing through the veins to the lungs and heart for CO2 levels, ABG tests analyze oxygen-rich blood flowing through arteries from the heart and lungs, giving the most accurate measure of the blood’s oxygen levels.
I have now followed this approach. I did 8 help aphereses, every time before and after a blood gas analysis. The values before that were between 19% and 28%. Which is really low, I was also very bad. After the Apheresis, the values were always better.After some apheresis, I liked it better, but the blood gas results were always low. Now I've also tried the combination of Natto / Vedicinals / Aspirin. Now the value before the Help Apheresis was 55%. After that we were at 85%. Unfortunately, I still have high PEM and I think the values drop relatively quickly after the Apheres. I'm now at day 6 with vedicininals and I hope I'll do it physically soon.
Thank you this is really helpful. Fairly confident I haven't had COVID (-ve serology) so I now think I must have been vaccine injured - I went to ER last September for tachycardia and still not feeling well I requested my file today and my blood gas scores were the same as yours. I have a history of autoimmune and hypothyroid. Heart is still not right but all tests 'fine'. Two other female colleagues also having same issue and no known Covid (we didn't have it until 2022 where I live). I suspect there are many like us "subclinical" and still working but all three of us are feeling exhausted. I'll order a new Blood gas test and go from there. Thanks again!
I appreciate the effort and intent but xDRx misinterprets venous oxygen saturation.
Venous blood gases alone, like arterial alone, can't predict either oxygen delivery to tissues (DO2) or oxygen consumption (VO2). These more important measures are functions of the arterial-venous difference, which requires collecting both arterial and venous samples from the same point, typically the elbow or wrist, after removing the tourniquet.
Low venous O2 saturation is commonly paired with low arterial oxygen, and high with high, so that the average O2 gap between them -- the oxygen reaching tissues-- is around 30% (under 25% is considered abnormally low and unhealthy).
So while his venous O2 level of 35% was very low, this would not result in abnormally low oxygen delivery to tissues unless his unmeasured arterial O2 was under 60%.
A much easier way to measure low venous oxygen is just to put a pulse oximeter on your finger and hold your breath for 30 seconds or more. While you hold your breath, the "arterial" blood originally measured under the sensor moves on and is replaced after about 30 seconds with blood coming from the veins. Since venous blood always contains less oxygen than arterial, the displayed SpO2 should go down.
But if the SpO2 level goes up while you are holding your breath, this indicates there is more carbon monoxide coming out of your tissues than there is oxygen going in, which means you are being poisoned by CO from the inside out. This is because all standard pulse ox read COHb as if it were O2Hb, so SpO2 is really the sum of both. Only Masimo Rad57 and similar devices can measure both separately (I have no affiliation)
This CO may be inhaled or made naturally from the breakdown of heme proteins by heme oxygenase-1 and -2. We all make CO 24/7 but much more in response to stressors of all kinds, including both viral infections and vaccinations. This internal CO is likely the root cause of acute and long-COVID symptoms because the same symptoms are caused by inhaled CO poisoning.
Thank you for an interesting article and I was wondering if this would apply to people with ME CFS? I have had CFS for about 20 years and have tried every known over the counter supplements.
My d dimmer tests come back quite elevated in the 1500s consistently.
I live in NZ so would these tests be available here?
Really cool approach to detecting microclots, and so glad you found a way to start feeling better. Awesome to see the biomarker both responds to treatment and correlates well with how you're feeling, too.
I'd be curious what the level of agreement is vs. pulse oxygenation. As you said it's (usually?) arterial so probably misses the downstream step of blood --> tissue perfusion.
I wonder if expired gas analysis, like they do in vo2 max tests, could be another proxy. If, at rest, your body is consuming less oxygen, maybe that indicates issues with tissue o2 uptake.
Just requested to join your facebook group!
I've tried about 20 different meds and supplements over the last 6 months and the only two I can swear by is Aspirin and NK. It's nice to read, retrospectively a bit of validation from someone more educated than me on the topic.
I've recently started NAC, CBD Oil (no THC), Ubiquinol and taking Ivabradine to calm the POTS symptoms.
I'll also be starting LDN with the hope that it just eases some of the obvious inflammatory effects while we wait for more detail on how to treat the root cause.
Best wishes
Very well explained. You are attributing the effects of Vedicinals 9 to their antiviral effects against possibly persisting SARS-CoV-2. With regards to the literature this may or may not be the driver behind LongCovid. What I deem more plausible is that reactivation of pre-existing endogenous reservoirs (HHVs, esp. EBV) may be a driver - and indeed there is quite some evidence accumulating for this. So I would suggest that the positive effects of the Vedicinals may relate to their antiviral activity against HHVs/EBV, and indeed most of the ingredients were show to have possible anti-EBV activity.
did you also test monolaurin (3x3g per day) as antiviral instead of Vedicinals? works well for me.
What about the use of LDN?
It helps me with my chronic EDS pain. It’s potentially kept at bay the residual effects of two rounds of EBV with several years of CFS afterward. I no longer suffer from fatigue issues.
I have Factor V as well. A new Doctor thinks the LDN has protected me from severe Covid as I think I had it for two days last August. My only symptom was bizarre EBV style exhaustion for two days. Then it was gone. I’m also on prophylactic IVM and the other nutraceuticals along with it.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. One of the questions that came to my mind is what if the Vedicinals benefit isn’t coming from viral suppression, rather it is from further anti-clotting help? Specifically Rutin, Curcumin and Quercitin all aid in suppressing/resolving clots. I wonder what would happen if you replaced Vedicinals with just those 3 supplements?
I'm confused. If more oxygen is getting to tissues due to elimination of microclots, shouldn't venous O2 be *lower* in an improved state? And CO2 *higher*?
And what about an arterial blood gas test instead?
Unlike a venous blood gas test, which tests CO2-rich blood flowing through the veins to the lungs and heart for CO2 levels, ABG tests analyze oxygen-rich blood flowing through arteries from the heart and lungs, giving the most accurate measure of the blood’s oxygen levels.
Hello, this is really a great approach.
I have now followed this approach. I did 8 help aphereses, every time before and after a blood gas analysis. The values before that were between 19% and 28%. Which is really low, I was also very bad. After the Apheresis, the values were always better.After some apheresis, I liked it better, but the blood gas results were always low. Now I've also tried the combination of Natto / Vedicinals / Aspirin. Now the value before the Help Apheresis was 55%. After that we were at 85%. Unfortunately, I still have high PEM and I think the values drop relatively quickly after the Apheres. I'm now at day 6 with vedicininals and I hope I'll do it physically soon.
Thank you this is really helpful. Fairly confident I haven't had COVID (-ve serology) so I now think I must have been vaccine injured - I went to ER last September for tachycardia and still not feeling well I requested my file today and my blood gas scores were the same as yours. I have a history of autoimmune and hypothyroid. Heart is still not right but all tests 'fine'. Two other female colleagues also having same issue and no known Covid (we didn't have it until 2022 where I live). I suspect there are many like us "subclinical" and still working but all three of us are feeling exhausted. I'll order a new Blood gas test and go from there. Thanks again!
I wrote about the Patterson trial which I started as well! I'm on month 2. Good luck to all of us! Following you on twitter
I am interested to understand why we cannot measure/observe the microclots in Australia. Is it a particular reagent that is needed?
I appreciate the effort and intent but xDRx misinterprets venous oxygen saturation.
Venous blood gases alone, like arterial alone, can't predict either oxygen delivery to tissues (DO2) or oxygen consumption (VO2). These more important measures are functions of the arterial-venous difference, which requires collecting both arterial and venous samples from the same point, typically the elbow or wrist, after removing the tourniquet.
Low venous O2 saturation is commonly paired with low arterial oxygen, and high with high, so that the average O2 gap between them -- the oxygen reaching tissues-- is around 30% (under 25% is considered abnormally low and unhealthy).
So while his venous O2 level of 35% was very low, this would not result in abnormally low oxygen delivery to tissues unless his unmeasured arterial O2 was under 60%.
A much easier way to measure low venous oxygen is just to put a pulse oximeter on your finger and hold your breath for 30 seconds or more. While you hold your breath, the "arterial" blood originally measured under the sensor moves on and is replaced after about 30 seconds with blood coming from the veins. Since venous blood always contains less oxygen than arterial, the displayed SpO2 should go down.
But if the SpO2 level goes up while you are holding your breath, this indicates there is more carbon monoxide coming out of your tissues than there is oxygen going in, which means you are being poisoned by CO from the inside out. This is because all standard pulse ox read COHb as if it were O2Hb, so SpO2 is really the sum of both. Only Masimo Rad57 and similar devices can measure both separately (I have no affiliation)
This CO may be inhaled or made naturally from the breakdown of heme proteins by heme oxygenase-1 and -2. We all make CO 24/7 but much more in response to stressors of all kinds, including both viral infections and vaccinations. This internal CO is likely the root cause of acute and long-COVID symptoms because the same symptoms are caused by inhaled CO poisoning.
Here is a review of the CO connections that I wrote in March 2020: https://osf.io/preprints/uvj42/
Thank you for the amazing article. Could you please recommend anti virals so I can approach my GP?
Much love, Matthew
Thank you for an interesting article and I was wondering if this would apply to people with ME CFS? I have had CFS for about 20 years and have tried every known over the counter supplements.
My d dimmer tests come back quite elevated in the 1500s consistently.
I live in NZ so would these tests be available here?
Thank you
Thank you